HN.zip

I haven't used a mouse for 14 years

20 points by speckx - 37 comments
TheAmazingRace [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I get the love for Macbook trackpads, but Lenovo really nailed it with the ThinkPad trackpoint and glass trackpad combo, especially on more recent models.
kstrauser [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Wish I could use a trackpad as-is. My wrists are mildly FUBAR after decades of computer work/obsession, and now I'm having to deal with it. For me, that means that continual wrist pronation freaking hurts.

Let your arms hang straight down. Now bend your elbows and lift your forearms so that they're at 90º to your body, i.e. parallel to the ground. Notice that your hands are naturally oriented so that if you were holding a pole, it would be much closer to pointing downward than sideways. Rotating your wrists "inward" so that your hand is parallel to your desk, in the position to use a trackpad, is not their normal position.

I used a magic trackpad for quite a while until I found myself in agony by the end of the day. One of my coworkers told me he was exploring using vertical mice and that caught my attention. I tried one and it stopped the pain, like, immediately. Mousing around was awkward for a few days until I got used to the different hand orientation and movement, but that passed quickly. Now I'd never, ever go back to a trackpad.

I'd considered making a little block to mount my magic trackpad sideways at, say, a 45º angle to my desk so that my wrist wasn't so pronated, but even then it nudges you toward radial and ulnar deviation which can also become uncomfortable over time. I'd rather just painlessly use my vertical mouse which uses forearm movement and write extension/flexion to zip the cursor around my screen.

amarant [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Sounds like you might benefit from something like the UHK[1].

It's got tenting, which approaches that natural tilt to your hands, and there are several mouse add-ons to choose from, I'm sure one of them will suit your needs.

[1]https://uhk.io/

bee_rider [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I thought it was going to be about someone who’d fully embraced the terminal.

Preferring a trackpad to a mouse seems not so unusual, right? I guess sticking to it so completely is. I prefer marble-mouse type devices, but I can’t say with any certainty that I haven’t accidentally touched a mouse in the past 14 years.

JoshTriplett [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I spend most of my time using a ThinkPad laptop touchpad, but the critical property that makes it usable for me is the physical mouse buttons. I find it incredibly awkward to use any system without physical mouse buttons, or any system where tap-to-click has not been disabled.

I tried, on my current laptop, to see if I could get used to having tap-to-click enabled even without actually using it; I wanted to see how far off I was from being able to deal with any non-ThinkPad. I ended up turning it back off after a few days, after many many clicks I didn't want to click.

D13Fd [3 hidden]5 mins ago
My wife feels the same way as you. I guess everyone is different. To me, tap-to-click and two-finger right click feel the best by far.
rootusrootus [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I've tried them all. Trackpad, trackpoint, trackball, all of them. I keep coming back to a mouse. Everything else is either frustrating and finicky, or it induces RSI after a few hours.
thibaut_barrere [3 hidden]5 mins ago
What worked for me is “logitech lift”, one left handed the other right handed. When they are connected I set up my Mac to disable the trackpad.

That + sport and standing desk, did wonder to me.

tokai [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Did you try a mousetrapper?
veilrap [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I exclusively use trackpads like Magic Trackpad 2 when I'm on MacOS. But I exclusively use a mouse when I'm running Windows and Linux.

MacOS just seems more tailored to the touchpad experience. Windows and Linux more tailored to the mouse experience.

seabrookmx [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Modern GNOME distros (Ubuntu and Fedora when running Wayland, for example) work pretty well with a trackpad. You get all the usual Mac-style gestures: two finger scrolling, pinch to zoom, three finger horizontal swipe for workspaces, three finger vertical swipe for "expose" style app overview, etc.

I'm running a Framework 13 and other than the physical click requiring more effort than the haptic "click" on a Mac, it's pretty dang similar.

mikestew [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I don't know, does a trackpad count? In one sense, no, it's not a mouse. In which case, I guess I'm in the same boat. I don't know if I even have any mice in the house anymore.

OTOH, I thought this might be a post from a keyboard shortcut wizard.

tejohnso [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I haven't used a mouse in ages, but I haven't used a trackpad - ever. I've never found one that matches the accuracy, speed, and overall joy of using TrackPoint to move the mouse cursor.
D13Fd [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Yeah it’s really a shame that the track point wasn’t adopted globally (I’m assuming for patent reasons, but surely any patents must be expired by now).

For years I used a Trackpoint external keyboard plus a mouse. The track point is great for small movements when you’re primarily typing, and the mouse is great for when you are primarily moving the cursor.

nine_k [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I love trackpoint for navigation and UI control. But it's not that great for drawing / painting (even though I did use it for that, successfully).
apparent [3 hidden]5 mins ago
> macOS setup guide used to include an option to turn on three finger drag, but now it has been hidden in the accessibility option.

I don't understand why Apple does this. It's like the "allow ANC with one AirPod" setting, which is also inexplicably an accessibility option.

swiftcoder [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I'm in much the same boat. Daily Apple trackpad driver for the past 15 years at least, maybe more. Every time I have to use a PC with a mouse it kills me a little (and don't get me started on those trackpads cheap PC laptops ship with...)
ryandrake [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I switched to a mac trackpad years ago due to hand pain that comes whenever I grip/use a mouse. Something about that half-closed-hand light grip has become just super painful. Unfortunately I still need to use one for FPS gaming, just haven't found a controller to match the speed and precision needed to aim and fire at a game opponent.
HerbManic [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Consider trying a vertical mouse. They look odd and the first day or two it is strange but after a while it becomes second nature. It was only after using one for a few mo ths that I realised most of my issues with typical mouses.

Also it is funny going back to a standard mice, it feels like you are awkwardly using a tiktak for input.

dkenyser [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I'm in the same boat when it comes to gaming. Primarily use a trackball mouse and have used it for some games like World of Warcraft or Path of Exile but a traditional mouse is still king for any FPS game.

I did learn recently that Zowie released an ergonomic version of their mouse that I plan on checking out though. Unfortunately there's just not a ton of options out there for ergonomic gaming mice.

zabzonk [3 hidden]5 mins ago
One of my favourite features on my Asus Zenbook (Windows) is the "Disable Touchpad" hotkey.
jeffbee [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I mean ... it's great that they gave you a slight accommodation, but that's at best a bodge to workaround bad hardware and software.
zabzonk [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Actually, the pad is not too bad - I'm just really not into trackpads.
nashashmi [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Windows has something better than three finger drag. It has single finger second tap and hold. Plus extended zones for when the trackpad is not big enough to stretch across
JojoFatsani [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I can't use the trackpad for too long without getting RSI type feelings.. I am trackball these days.
hmokiguess [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I'm on 12 years and I didn't know about the 3 fingers drag, thanks for sharing!
ternera [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The Magic Trackpad and Logitech MX Master 3s mouse are an excellent combination for me. I see benefits from both.
dewey [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I love the Magic Trackpad and I've used exclusively for years, at some point my wrists start to hurt and I'm now stuck with some Logitech MX Vertical.
kaypro [3 hidden]5 mins ago
You have me beat by two years and I never knew about the three fingers drag. Great find... thanks!
tokai [3 hidden]5 mins ago
>I am still amazed by Mac's Trackpad quality to this day. I used to own Windows laptops, and most of their touchpads are so shit

I have hear multiple times that patents are the reason for the bad trackpads outside of Apples products. But I have never been able to find a confirmation.

Talking about mouse alternatives I would like to give rollermouse a shout-out. Beside the relaxed arm position they give, I really like that they invite to use both hands at the same time. With the similar workload between both hands and arms I find the over all strain lower even with repetitive tasks for a long time.

krunck [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I despise trackpads. They feel so sloppy and approximate. Mice work great for my needs. But the best laptop pointer for me has been the pointing stick: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick
mikestew [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I despise trackpads.

And yet I'll use nothing else. Conversely, I have never gotten along with pointy sticks, all the way back to the original 1993 Toshiba Portégé[0] despite their apparent popularity.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynabook_Portégé

baggy_trough [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It is utterly insane that 3 finger drag isn't the default or at least not buried 3 layers deep inside accessibility. Apple, what are you doing?
bigyabai [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Anecdotal, but I haven't used my Magic Trackpad 2 since I bought a trackball (Kensington Expert Wireless). Removes all the same wrist strain issues while retaining flick accuracy of a mouse.
pimlottc [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Logitech MX Ergo fan here!
thebrain [3 hidden]5 mins ago
This is the best. I use it for work as well.
RobotToaster [3 hidden]5 mins ago
+1 on trackballs, I use a sanwa gravi myself