HN.zip

The Xkcd thing, now interactive

1074 points by memalign - 145 comments
BoppreH [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I would suggest adding the /r/ProgrammerHumor version too: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/1p204nx/ac...

The AI crank always cracks me up.

tw04 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
AWS definitely lives above unpaid developers. In fact they should probably be the bird flying straight at the unpaid developers as they force yet another company to move to a closed license to survive.
publicdebates [3 hidden]5 mins ago
You don't think AWS is internally built on massive amounts of open source?
sethaurus [3 hidden]5 mins ago
That's what it would mean to place them above unpaid developers in the illustration, yes.
mh8h [3 hidden]5 mins ago
sumo89 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The shark biting the cable is what gets me
i-zu [3 hidden]5 mins ago
One of DNS pillars should be replaced by BGP.
mhink [3 hidden]5 mins ago
And NTP, if I recall correctly.
JeanSebTr [3 hidden]5 mins ago
When was that?
rezonant [3 hidden]5 mins ago
When was BGP? Or when was NTP?
Sohcahtoa82 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I think it was a joke based on NTP being a time protocol.
jibal [3 hidden]5 mins ago
whoosh
Sohcahtoa82 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The "Whatever Microsoft is doing" bit was always my favorite.
Projectiboga [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I like that the hand crank is going counter-clockwise
Nevermark [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Crap, I saw it as clockwise. (Furious reversal of effort…)
skyberrys [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Can someone help me understand the single brick at the very bottom under Linux? What is it representing?
rtkwe [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The undersea cables actually connecting the entire internet. Sometimes sharks just take a bite of them, they're reasonable well protected but it's enough damage to cause outages and disruptions.

It's the single pin under everything because there are a limited number of those cables especially in some regions so a single shark can take out the entire internet for some countries.

http://www.mirceakademy.com/uploads/MSA2024-6-6.pdf

zahlman [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Do satellite networks not move the needle in terms of capacity/reliability now?
toast0 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Only a little bit. Just clicking around, a new Hawaii cable is supposed to have 24 Fiber Pairs and 18Tbit per Fiber Pair at the end of this year. If you lose several tbits of bandwidth, you're going to have a hard time making it up with satellite.

For small island countries and such, satellite capacity may be sufficient; and it is likely helpful for keeping international calling alive even if it's not sufficient for international data. But when you drop capacity by a factor of 1000, it's going to be super messy.

fc417fc802 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Conceptually, it's the difference between your wifi versus running a single fiber to each room in your house. The difference in bandwidth is multiple orders of magnitude.

This is never going to change because from a physical perspective free radio is a shared medium while each individual fiber (or wire) has its own private bandwidth.

rtkwe [3 hidden]5 mins ago
No. They're not setup to be a principal route between two nations and most satellite networks until very recently didn't even route messages through other satellites but instead retransmitted them to a ground station with access to hardline internet. Even Starlink mostly does this still because it's way cheaper and easier.
rtkwe [3 hidden]5 mins ago
You can see an unofficial tracker [0] of the Starlink downlink network and see how outside of some rural areas your data is only moving a few tens of miles away most of the time before it's sent down to a ground system. Their sats have 3 200 Gbps laser communicators for intra constellation routing which is pretty small for the task of replacing fiber optic links.

[0] https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1805q6rlePY4WZd8QMO...

roughly [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I never understand why questions like this get downvoted around here.
Hamuko [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I feel like having them as a single brick is a bit hyperbolic, since undersea cables are pretty redundant in most of the world. Get rid of one and traffic just routes around it. Ships have been routinely destroying cables in the Gulf of Finland and the Baltic Sea in the past couple of years without causing significant disruptions.
rtkwe [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Only mildly. There's not huge amounts of dark capacity just sitting around waiting to take over so if a major fiber connection goes down the remainder will get congested with the extra capacity. It won't cascade like a power outage but the remaining lines will slow down.
drob518 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The whole Internet was designed for precisely this use case. If there is an outage, the distributed system will try to find another path. No actual central point of failure. As you say, the single brick is hyperbolic. But yea, those sharks can certainly be disruptive at times.
rezonant [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Well that depends on how much traffic that cable was supporting, how much free capacity is available on other cables heading to the same area, how much additional latency the rerouting will add and how sensitive to latency the rerouted traffic is doesn't it?
CarVac [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Undersea cables. With a shark biting one.
apsurd [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The cables at the bottom of the ocean.
forrestpitz [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Looks like an undersea cable to me
b3lvedere [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Oh wow! :)

Thank you for the laughs. I needed that!

SideburnsOfDoom [3 hidden]5 mins ago
given the events of the last few days, one could add a Shahed drone too.
jfkimmes [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Here's a little more context about the author's motivation: https://mathstodon.xyz/@csk/116162797629337132
zahlman [3 hidden]5 mins ago
> In my online undergraduate P5.js course, students are about to begin the module on motion and physics, including a bit of physics simulation using Matter.js.

When did things get specialized this much?

hendersonreed [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Looking through the website of the course, it's not really a general computer science course - it "explores the use of graphics in art, design and visualization contexts" and is part of the digital art program. Quite a reasonable tech stack, for that purpose I think.
ink_13 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Oh cool, a product of Waterloo's Craig Kaplan, most famous for his work on the discovery of the einstein monotile
panzi [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Register the mousemove event handler on window, then you will still get the events when the mouse moves out of the window/frame while dragging and it won't be that buggy.
DaanDL [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Was about to comment the same. It's a common mistake/gotcha.
benrutter [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Possibly dumb question, but does that still hold inside p5js?
virgil_disgr4ce [3 hidden]5 mins ago
p5 is just a wrapper that adds the setup() and draw() functions, so yes
knowtheory [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I love that the initial state itself isn't stable.

The world keeps moving around us. Can't choose staying still.

tyleo [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Interesting! It's stable on my machine. I wonder if this is due to floating-point differences.
andai [3 hidden]5 mins ago
On my machine, the initial state isn't simulated. It only begins simulation when I touch it. At which point, the weight causes the bottom blocks to intersect each other significantly.
FireInsight [3 hidden]5 mins ago
For me, bottom blocks stay still while those on the very top fall down.
Hamuko [3 hidden]5 mins ago
If I open it, click on the background to activate the physics and just keep the tab open, pretty much all of the blocks that can collapse do eventually collapse.
smikhanov [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The Nebraska guy’s block remains surprisingly stable, even when the whole thing above it collapses. Very symbolic.
tyleo [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Maybe that's what I'm seeing.
rob74 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
One more pedantic nitpick: when a block gets wedged between two blocks at an angle, it gets slowly pushed out, although there is a lot of weight resting on the top block. That would be realistic only (maybe) if the blocks were made of ice, but not for other materials...
clickety_clack [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Coefficient of friction is way too low.
withinboredom [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Another reason not to let ice on the internet.
danhau [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I‘m guessing it‘s somewhat framerate-dependent.
LanceH [3 hidden]5 mins ago
That's the javascript effect.
rtkwe [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Nah that's just the effect of turning on the simulation. The initial version isn't the same as the first steps because there's no weight. If you look closely after you click the blocks overlap slightly.

Something similar happens all the time in games when you go from a static version of something to the higher level of detail version with physics enabled, if the transition isn't handled gracefully or early enough you can get snapping.

arcadianalpaca [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Just like real life. Sit still, touch nothing, and watch everything fall apart all on its own ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
tempestn [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Accidentally discovered you can quantum tunnel blocks through the weak link to shore it up!
PenguinRevolver [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I love that clicking the empty space and just doing nothing at all still causes the blocks to fall apart after some time.
ASalazarMX [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Since it's going to collapse anyway, it's fun to table flip everything using the botton block.
tosti [3 hidden]5 mins ago
[flagged]
Sohcahtoa82 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The whole "Disabling JavaScript and then pretending to not know why websites don't work and then acting holier-than-thou about it" shtick gets old.

You know sites will break. Could you just cut the bullshit with pretending to not understand broken websites?

rtkwe [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Truly baffling, you're voluntarily disabling a critical piece of how websites expect to function and then act shocked when web sites don't cater to the >>0.0001% of users who decline to allow their site to work.
tosti [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Why are you assuming I disabled javascript? The bullshit here is you thinking you know better than anyone else. You should get flagged for such ludicrous claims, not me.
rtkwe [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Turn on JS or check what's causing it to fail to load. It's a little JS physics toy of this XKCD comic. https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2347:_Dependency
zygentoma [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I love that the thing of itself is completely unstable once you click somewhere to start the simulation … :)
fallingmeat [3 hidden]5 mins ago
oh look at that. removing IBM enterprise apps really doesn’t break anything and the whole stack got lighter. science.
rob74 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Did you actually manage to remove a block without everything collapsing (eventually)? Then you must have an incredibly steady hand, it's nearly impossible to do as far as I can see. Which can also be interpreted as a metaphor for the state of the tech stack, I guess...
Nevermark [3 hidden]5 mins ago
As entropy increases, the stack rises.

But then, when trapped in a local maxima prohibiting growth, pressure builds as too many new layers attempt to shim themselves under existing layers, until inevitably the stack collapses somewhere.

Then new layers can restart generating new apex baby layers on a now higher foundation of fertile fragmented but compressed and stable new-legacy rubble. Another point-oh age begins.

And sometimes, the stack just falls apart because.

In between those extinction events, layers that spawn the most layers, and form opportunistic bridges over lateral layers, dominate and thrive.

Occasionally, some layers try to reorder themselves to optimize future growth. Or tunnel down to achieve stronger footing. But like the tower of Hanoi, the more layers involved, the more intractable the replanting and reordering. Meanwhile, other growth routes around them. Yet, many instances of these failed structures can be found in the depths.

andyjohnson0 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
This is wonderful.

The gravitational constant is maybe a little low for my taste, but I like that I can fling a block vertically up off the top of the frame and it reappears even 5+ seconds later. Things don't get ignored out of existence. Neat.

matzehuels [3 hidden]5 mins ago
love it, integrate it into https://github.com/matzehuels/stacktower please!
jascha_eng [3 hidden]5 mins ago
This is oddly fun to play with. Has that angry birds vibe
aanet [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Too delightful. Like a reverse jenga tower you like to topple over.

Of course, glad to see it was another @isohedral project.

mezod [3 hidden]5 mins ago
this is the best thing internet since the last best thing in the internet
andrewflnr [3 hidden]5 mins ago
If you just let the simulation fall apart under its inherent instability, the thanklessly maintained project is often one of the last things to fall. That seems poetically correct.
throwawayk7h [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I would add some lerp-smoothing to the position of the cursor/touch, since it's a bit rigid. Click-drag-release often doesn't result in a fling but rather a sharp drop.

Lovely idea by the way.

seydor [3 hidden]5 mins ago
without touching the block, after a while it begins collapsing, which makes it an even better representation of infrastructure
foltik [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Very satisfying. I ripped out the load bearing piece and everything stayed standing except for the tiny pieces at the very top. Doesn't seem so bad according to the simulations, maybe we could use a good shakeup?
briansm [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Just to mention the original was cited in the most recent Veritasium video:

"The Internet Was Weeks Away From Disaster and No One Knew"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoag03mSuXQ

(at about the 9:50 mark)

cnees [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Challenge: Rearrange the blocks into a stable configuration without losing any offscreen
poolnoodle [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The physics remind me of Little Inferno
snalty [3 hidden]5 mins ago
This reminds me of one of my favourite flash games, Fantastic Contraption, for some reason.
louisbourgault [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Really cool! To be honest, when I clicked on this I had a hope that it would be possible to add things to the stack like the ongoing memes of just putting different things in there (maybe live with other people as a collaborative editor).
1e1a [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It looks like the stroke/border is not taken into account in the physics simulation.
c_hastings [3 hidden]5 mins ago
That was a lot of fun actually. I used one block to wreck all the others. Thanks for sharing.
barddoo [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Increase friction
bbx [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I was expecting it to open the FFmpeg website at the end.
msuvakov [3 hidden]5 mins ago
zavg [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I would like to have online multiplayer version of Jenga game based on these mechanics
jasonjmcghee [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Played with it on the phone. So satisfying.

I know the time it takes to get something to feel this good.

Really fantastic work.

AshamedCaptain [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Liked those small Box2D playboxes from decades ago, wonder where all that went.
normie3000 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It's like open source Angry Birds.
jibal [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Todd C. Miller – Sudo maintainer for over 30 years https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46858577
BoneShard [3 hidden]5 mins ago
On an unrelated note, AI completely changed economics of https://xkcd.com/1205/

Previously I'd postpone some tooling since I'd lost more time on it (unless it's something I wanted to learn anyway), but now I'm all in.

kyle-rb [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Plus "a dev typing real fast" from the XKCD Stack (https://xkcd.com/1636/) is now feasible.
merryocha [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I knew exactly what this would be before even clicking it. Someone had to make it!
rererereferred [3 hidden]5 mins ago
There is so many xkcd things, I didn't know which it would be.
fragmede [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It's 2,347. There's also 927. And 538, and who can forget 386. 936 is also a classic. 1205 is a favorite, although AI changes the scales these days. As does 303. 1838 is another good one for when CC is "thinking". 1425.

Edit oh and Extrapolating out; 605.

garbagepatch [3 hidden]5 mins ago
And it's all a meta commentary on 915.
egorfine [3 hidden]5 mins ago
We absolutely need a "whatever Microsoft is doing" object in that.
9dev [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I hope Randall reads HN and sees this, he’d love it.
mghackerlady [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I'd be surprised if he didn't read HN at least occasionally
venusenvy47 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Is this website intended to break HN on Android? I've never had a website lock up the HN app like this. I couldn't back out, and I was stuck in a loop when the app restarted on the same page.
whackernews [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Im sure whatever’s happening isn’t intended but I did experience jankyness when trying to use the back button on Safari on iOS. It wouldn’t let me go back.
andai [3 hidden]5 mins ago
App?
venusenvy47 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pranapps.h...

I've been using it so long, I forgot that it is not official.

Telaneo [3 hidden]5 mins ago
There are a few HN readers out there, but none of them are official as far as I know.
shadowgovt [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It's adorable. One small criticism: instead of being stored as initial conditions with no internal forces, if the tooling allows for it it should be stored as the "relaxed" state with internal forces. As it stands, the first interaction with it causes the whole model to 'bump' because everything is actually just kinda hovering in space with no physics simulation happening and only the first interaction causes physics calculations to start.
lwhi [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Who are the big blocks that survive the collapse though?
latexr [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Some BSD server somewhere which was last rebooted in 1994. No one is really sure where it’s physically located, but it keeps everything running.
raverbashing [3 hidden]5 mins ago
And it still pings, of course
latexr [3 hidden]5 mins ago
bitwize [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Ooooh, that's fun to make topple. I kind of want to launch an Angry Bird at it.
lencastre [3 hidden]5 mins ago
needs angry birds version

or not, it’s great as is BTW

inanutshellus [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Feature request - be able to change the text and re-share it.

Half the fun of this xkcd is referring to it in context of whatever just went haywire.

withinboredom [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The source code is right there ... just change the background image to whatever you want.
inanutshellus [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Ha! ^_^

That text is literally the only thing hardcoded. It's inside a PNG, sourced in.

I get it though. Reproducing that cutesy "hand drawn" text would be a pain in the arse if you didn't just have the font.[1]

    [1] https://github.com/ipython/xkcd-font
CivBase [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It'd be really cool (and probably useful) if someone could figure out a way to generate diagrams like this for any software project.

You'd first need to figure out a way to generate a complete dependency tree. For each box, I interpret its height as a measure of its complexity and its width as a measure of the support it receives. The hardest part would probably be figuring out a way to quantitatively measure those values.

TonyStr [3 hidden]5 mins ago
One naiive solution could be to cloc the dependency and use the size as the height, and fetch number of github contributors as width
BoppreH [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Ask and you shall receive: https://stacktower.io/
CivBase [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Oh cool. That's a promising start.

I don't know if the "The Nebraska Guy Ranking" this project uses is very useful, though. In particular the "depth" criteria doesn't make much sense to me, since it assumes the more foundational a dependency is, the more robust it must be. This seems to run counter to the point of the original comic where the "Nebraska Guy" piece was the fragile block holding up the entire tower.

This project also doesn't attempt to measure or visualize the complexity of a project. Theoretically a more complex project would require more support than a simple one, so I think that's an important metric to capture.

withinboredom [3 hidden]5 mins ago
bro. it asks for the ability for some random github user to literally take over your private repositories.
matzehuels [3 hidden]5 mins ago
You’re 100% right to call that out. The current GitHub OAuth scope is too broad

I’m changing this ASAP to least-privilege and I’ll publish a clear explanation of scopes + data handling. In the meantime: please run the local/CLI path if you want zero-trust.

withinboredom [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Damn dude. That’s awesome! I saw the permissions it wanted out of every org I’m a part of (including some big open source orgs) — I’d probably find myself booted out of those orgs if I accepted that. They def get a notification on every authentication like that and take potential impersonation seriously.
claar [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Yeah, if it weren't for that, I think this would blow up. Plus, even if you get past that, if you try a larger project, it times out after 1 minute and gives up. But it's a pretty awesome idea!
matzehuels [3 hidden]5 mins ago
hey! I built this, I know its really scrappy, I just don't have enough time currently to make right by users. I'm on it though... stay tuned
palad1n [3 hidden]5 mins ago
THIS IS THE BEST THING EVAR!
tobylane [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I'd like a medal for clearing the screen of all debris. What's that you say, some of it is still useful? oh
_nivlac_ [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Now we just need a generated version of this based on a package.json!
westurner [3 hidden]5 mins ago
"The Red Wheelbarrow" (1923) by William Carlos Williams https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45502/the-red-wheelba...
dmitrygr [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I think you may have set friction too low
efilife [3 hidden]5 mins ago
If only it wouldn't collapse by itself after clicking anywhere (clicking seems to activate physics) this would be 10/10
koolba [3 hidden]5 mins ago
> If only it wouldn't collapse by itself after clicking anywhere (clicking seems to activate physics) this would be 10/10

I think that's the other metaphor here.

It's not just standing on the tiny shoulders of one forgotten maintainer. The entire system only appears stable because we're looking at a snapshot of it.

In reality it's already collapsing.

glkindlmann [3 hidden]5 mins ago
but I came here for amusement, not existential dread.
gchamonlive [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Nobody expects ~the Spanish inquisition~ existential dread
upsuper [3 hidden]5 mins ago
And that tiny thing is actually one of the last to collapse...
moebrowne [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Yeah. Seems like there is ~0 friction.
MagicMoonlight [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The blocks feel a little bit too slippery
harvie [3 hidden]5 mins ago
No title text, No respect...
josefritzishere [3 hidden]5 mins ago
This is very real.
JimmaDaRustla [3 hidden]5 mins ago
funny, but poorly coded because there's not friction coefficient it seems - just clicking into the applet, everything eventually just falls over
crokie123 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
What’s the Nebraska project?
voidUpdate [3 hidden]5 mins ago
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2347:_Dependency has some examples, one of which is actually from nebraska
bddicken [3 hidden]5 mins ago
epic
wink [3 hidden]5 mins ago
the weird physics are mildly infuriating. still funny though
eastbound [3 hidden]5 mins ago
That is the joke, I think. The game is to touch anything and try to not make the rest fall down.
wink [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Not sure. It's not it being unstable, it's small bricks moving bigger stuff to the side and maybe even upward. If I missed the joke I just don't find it funny.
seba_dos1 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Simply clicking on the empty background already makes things fall down.