The drivers might be up on LKML, but they're not mainlined yet. And this is just gen5. It would be great if you could fix your gen4 and 4.5 drivers, so that people building products with your chips weren't stuck on an orphaned vendor kernel that doesn't even upstream to your public fork.

Also your boot-chain is still closed and proprietary, and completely different than the one used by all other ARM vendors. Being the special snowflake is not helping your business or your customers.

And don't even get me started on Gunyah and GearVM, or on the proprietary, locked nature of your BSP, or how far behind TI and NXP you are on software quality and ease of use. Maybe also consider releasing some actual documentation on your chips.

I know multiple developers who have sworn off Qualcomm and will never design with your chips again at any price point. Your closed-off support model is 100% the culprit, and it hurts your core business. Any software support revenue that you managage to extract comes at the cost of goodwill and future chip sales.

Your chips are good - best in the industry. If you can up your software game to match, you'll really meet your potential.

Nowadays the entire thing until you land in EL1 needs to be signed by Qualcomm as well. This is without "Secure Boot" enabled. OEMs only get to run code under the hypervisor. And you might want to use a part of the hardware but someone decided the VM your code runs in shouldn't have access to that, too bad.

EL2 is still locked down for the chip this post is about, AFAIK. And everything else is is staying locked.

Lots of this is customer dependent but what you say is true for the typical android phone config that most use

It will be interesting to see what Google got from Qualcomm for the new Chromebooks (EL3 isn't even the highest level anymore, that's TME now).

The new AL BSP target for Hamoa, which is what's going to ship on the new Android laptops, runs KVM at EL2 instead of Gunyah. But it has (at least partially) Qualcomm-owned EL3.

Gunyah is disappearing from new chips, slowly but surely.

X2 doesn't have it anymore, the IoT range has it as optional now. And it's going to be deployed less from there

Who benefits from having separate BUs maintain fully separate software stacks? It's duplicated, wasted effort on Qualcomm's part. Maybe it lets them double-charge their customers for this duplicate effort, but that feels short-sighted. It leaves a bad taste in their customers' mouths. And there's certainly no benefit in delivered software quality.

Qualcomm should be making it easy for everybody to buy and use their chips, not artificially segmenting every single customer. They could sweep the market so hard if they were just a little less greedy.

Why does the boot-chain matter? Can't we just have a custom U-Boot implementation that interacts with the bespoke boot chain while providing standard UEFI support to the rest of the system? Isn't that how Asahi works?

A full-featured U-Boot implementation would be fine IMO. But for the generations that I've used, that's not on the table. What we get is a proprietary flow through a proprietary hypervisor into a fork of Android's bootloader (even if vanilla Linux is the target OS). There's no way to control startup boot options, and no way to use KVM, Xen or any hypervisor except the proprietary one that's also part of the boot chain.

This doesn't lend itself to flexible products, or to products that are easy for a company to design or support. That is why things like this happen: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46008156

This is much better than that. Not great yet, but much better than that in comparison.

I agree Qualcomm's support of open source is better, while still leaving a lot to be desired.

That said, though, Apple can't be best for embedded applications, they're plainly not competing in that space - or can you make e.g. a custom ticket vending machine with an Apple chip?

Go all in or go home, qualcomm.

- Their Snapdragon X laptop didn't do very well, and they likely realize an ARM Windows laptop will always be a second class citizen: https://www.techpowerup.com/329255/snapdragon-x-failed-qualc... .

- Likewise, Mobile SoCs are completely dependent on Android without proper upstreaming (which they haven't done in the past).

- They are seeing Valve spending time and money on FOSS support paying off, especially with their new hardware releases.

On the other hand, proper upstreaming of the chips give them much more flexibility for different linux-based OSes.

If FOSS support is motivated by a clear profit motive, then it'll be viewed positively by shareholders and stick around no matter who is in charge. If FOSS support comes from "turning over a new leaf", it could be dropped at a moment's notice in response to a leadership change.

IMO we will always see far better FOSS support from the private sector when the time they invest has a positive ROI that is obvious and easy to brag about in a quarterly earnings call.

The inputs and the outputs of the AI are always human-facing, so the goals vaguely resemble human values (even if the values are greed).

I will say with my 8 gen 3 snapdragon I'm impressed and also disappointed - stupid thing needs active cooling and I'm pretty sure it's bad enough that it's desoldered or damaged the core or something from heat but also you can't get driver updates for the GPU if you wanted because Qualcomm be the way it do.

This is no different from any other company that has "embraced" open source.

As with pretty much all other ARM cpu vendors that pushed for their own kernel fork just to have drivers that did not need to be okayed by mainstream kernel, it was faster iteration to deliver something working to their clients; but it was also PITA to their clients, especially when industry started demanding longer support for their devices

1st party native software support is high and 3rd party native software support is higher than Linux. Both have feature complete userspace emulation layers for the 3rd party part (largely game focused) Windows doesn't need Proton for that. Both can run open source apps natively.

I am pretty sure 99% of the population is in the same situation.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-lapt...

are there any linux phone projects that are actively maintained and used in 2025? i was under the impression that android kinda subsumed them all.

Why? So far ARM laptops provide either vastly better battery life for the same performance or vastly better performance for the same battery life. Even versus discrete GPUs.

Within a couple years from now you're gonna look like an utter fool for buying x86 (and Nvidia / AMD / Intel GPU) unless Intel, AMD and Nvidia really pull their head out of the sand.

There's a few specific workloads like local LLM and legacy where you'd want a discrete GPU or x86, but otherwise it is looking like GG.

https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Discontinuation-of-ARM-no...

Yet 2 days ago, Tuxedo Computers announced they were abandoning Qualcomm due to crap support. (https://www.theregister.com/2025/11/26/tuxedo_axes_arm_lapto...).

  In particular, the long battery runtimes – usually one of the strong arguments for ARM devices – were not achieved under Linux. 
  A viable approach for BIOS updates under Linux is also missing at this stage, as is fan control.
  Virtualization with KVM is not foreseeable on our model, nor are the high USB4 transfer rates.
  Video hardware decoding is technically possible, but most applications lack the necessary support.

Does Apple offer better support? Qualcomm offers commercial support. I guess Tuuxedo Computers didn't pay for the support?

Do AMD and Intel require Tuuxedo to pay for premium support in order to get working Linux drivers? No, of course not.

Qualcomm's support for Linux is embarrassing when you compare it to pretty much any processor manufacturer except Apple.

This changes the game. I’d rather use native Linux than Asahi (though the latter is amazing).

Ships with aarch64 Ubuntu 24.04.

Tons of cores and RAM.

Very quiet and small

UEFI bootloader - I installed Ubuntu 25.10 and ESXi arm edition just by booting the ISO

usb-c power input (kinda cool)

Insane connectx 200GbE RoCE networking

10GbE Ethernet

Oh and an nvidia gpu with cuda and access to 128GB of unified memory

It would be perfect if it had some kind of BMC or IPMI/redfish and an exposed PCIE slot. But this thing is an awesome arm64 workstation no doubt.

May try to install to a USB drive and hang another gpu off the nvme port just to see what happens

Those are all perfectly acceptable limitations for a POC. And the GPU drivers are particularly well-made. But it doesn't really come close to how seriously AMD and Intel take Linux.

AFAIU, the biggest challenge of running Linux on ARM machines is supporting the devicetree of each machine. After all, there is mainline kernel support for previous Qualcomm chips, yet very few machines with those chips can actually run Linux distros.

So this is good news, but in practical terms it's just a marketing piece.

While it would be great for Qualcomm to "do the right thing" in supporting FOSS, I feel much more confident in that support being sustained long-term when it aligns with some profit motive.

IMO the best case is that Qualcomm sees dollar signs when they imagine their Oryon CPUs and Adreno GPUs dominating the consumer linux landscape. There is definitely room to shake up x86 (especially when it comes to perf/W and idle battery drain), and only a finite window for ARM to do so with RISC-V on the horizon.

And to whatever extent Qualcomm et al now view Linux as a relevant personal computing platform, I think a massive amount of credit goes to Valve. I seriously doubt Linux support even enters the conversation at these companies without the Steam Deck's success.

Sure doesn’t sound like mainstream consumer pc desktop is the target at all. Yes, they do provide instructions for how to run this on desktop but it’s far from accessible for the overwhelming majority of pc users.

I mean it’s still a good thing for Linux desktop to have this as an option, I’m not complaining. But to be realistic those benefits feel tangential to what Qualcomm is aiming at here.

Admittedly a hypothetical Arm-based Steam Deck or Framework Laptop were at the forefront of my mind, but I think any consumer product running linux qualifies, be it "IoT, automotive, audio or mobile".

Whether people are buying EVs with a slick linux-based infotainment screens, gaming handhelds running SteamOS, or smart-devices with fancy local AI features, I think the effect is the same. If Qualcomm predicts significant growth in demand for efficient, high perf devices running customized Linux distros, I think it could be great for FOSS at large.

(And I don't think Qualcomm has seen the light - my understanding is that the Turnip drivers are purely reverse engineered.)

I hope they succeed but the last generation has only recently become mostly usable for specific distros. General support may take a while.

The stability layer also doesn't actually let you seemlessly update the kernel. Those userspace binaries are coupled to specific kernel releases, and it requires work on the vendors part to facilitate new kernel version upgrades. Maybe being upstream will force them to actually take backwards comparability with older userspace binaries more seriously though.

That would be great. As far as I know, there currently are no options for lightweight tablets that support Linux.

Not sure how well WSL2 on tablets work. Does anybody here have experiences with WSL2 on tablets like the new Microsoft Surface Pro that uses the Snapdragon X Elite chip?

Apparently WSL2 does work, it pulls a native ARM64 Linux distro and then proceeds as usual.

I can understand Apple Silicon having an initial advantage due to its hardware TSO support, but I'd have expected some combination of efforts at ARM and Qualcomm to have caught up by now. Shouldn't ARMv9 have a standardized (if optional) TSO mode? I'm disappointed by the foot-dragging.

The hardware is great, though, I love the 12” Surface with the X1E. WSL2 works great!

Does this count? https://puri.sm/products/librem-11

And I would want to do a normal Debian stable installation. Just like I can on a Lenovo laptop. The Librem 11 comes with their own Debian based distro and I can't find any info if I can install a normal Debian on it from scratch.

> Hardware-accelerated video recording into H.264 (AVC) and H.265 (HEVC) formats

no mention of AV1? Surprised since most websites including YT uses it heavily.

Maybe that part of the driver isn't finished yet?

It actually introduces new things into the UAPI because no one else did fully-stateful AV1 decode before.

presentation is half the message!

also, not to beat a horse that is by now six feet under, but

> No delays, no hurry-up-and-wait, no registration. Just go get the new features.

i'm so tired

i mention this because perhaps you'd like it too. in my case fedora 43 works just fine, and fast.

do you use macos at all, or do you do ~everything within a full-screened fedora instance?

I didn't have to do _anything_ weird: just grabbed the latest Fedora iso for aarch64 ( or arm64...i forget what it was named), and voila.

[1] https://lore.kernel.org/kvm/20250424141341.841734-1-karim.ma...

[2] https://github.com/karim-manaouil/linux-next/tree/gunyah-kvm

[3] https://github.com/karim-manaouil/qemu-for-gunyah

KVM is available on current compute platforms (laptops) if you escape to EL2 via slbounce; and on Glymur (X2E) it will be available by default (yay!).

The prototype impl at the time broke some Windows functionality

Having basic SoC support doesn't mean you can just flash a kernel and expect the device to boot, though.

The tooling itself actually does most of the work for you. Things like compiling the kernel and building and flashing the install image pretty much happen automatically once you've copied over a template and edited the necessary sources.

You can probably boot pmOS if you copy a template for a device with the same CPU but if there are no similar devices, you're on your own. Even if it does boot, there's a good chance you end up in a "no display, no USB, no wireless, no sound" scenario where the kernel runs but won't be doing anything useful. Just having CPU support isn't enough, you'll probably need the appropriate device tree definitions and possibly kernel drivers which you may be able to lift from the Android kernel if your device came with that.

Very few Android SoCs have upstream support that even comes close to what the Apple M1 has, let alone an amd64 CPU. The new Snapdragon Extreme chips are very different in terms of design and in terms of how Qualcomm approaches them, and even their support is lacking in practice.

I'm pretty keen to play around with Proton, FEX in a laptop that rivals the MBP

So how about you give me a fucking break, Qualcomm? Call back when Snapdragon has first class support in major distros and you are serious about Linux.

The problems seem rather similar, a while after release you need a dedicated build to actually get Linux working mostly right. Doesn't come close to the normal Linux experience. Then again, the X1 Extreme seems to have USB display and thunderbolt support, so they're better than Apple Silicon will probably ever be on Linux.

let's stop being naive - qcom will not change.

They aren't targeting enthusiasts with this announcement.

On phone platforms.. probably not? Or Android might want it for pKVM..

Are they already using Turnip / Mesa as their Vulkan implementation or not yet? If not, they should. Valve are using Turnip on their Steam Frame.

That would be another step of working with upstream, besides the kernel driver.

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