Going to lay this out without names, but I have had the opportunity to meet some video game writers, from what I guess you would call the last (or N - 2) generation.
I have never before or since met a more self indulgent, greedy, stuck up set of snobs in all my time. People who are exposed to their work might think them interesting, funny people but they were quite serious and believe themselves at the pinnacle of writing.
I think the stage has long been set for professional novelists to show up and eat their lunch.
taeric [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Oddly, I suspect the same criticism would be true for many professional novelists? Similar for many professionals of any form, to be honest? Tending towards vain is not at all a trait monopolized by any profession.
vunderba [3 hidden]5 mins ago
One of my favorite video games of all time is the Western CRPG Betrayal at Krondor, set in the Riftwar Cycle universe as written by the relatively well-known fantasy author Raymond E. Feist.
The deft writing in that game is my go-to example for how to avoid that dime-store novella quality "purple prose," that you see so much in D&D fiction, and it easily holds its own against strong contenders in the writing category (Disco Elysium, Baldur's Gate, etc.).
Fair warning if you decide to go play it: spellcasting in the game is almost stupidly OP (cough Skin of the Dragon cough). Still great fun, but the combat is by far the weakest aspect of the game.
chongli [3 hidden]5 mins ago
the combat is by far the weakest aspect of the game
I would correct that to say balance is the weakest part. The open-endedness of the game is one of its strong suits (which is surprising given how it’s written) but there are many opportunities for an enterprising player to break the game. You can make your party fabulously wealthy just by exploiting the merchants in the game and then use the money to deck out the party with overpowered equipment.
vunderba [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Yeah. A LOT of games have that "economic exploit" where you can generate infinite money. But in BAK just barding alone you can get as much money as you need - no tricks involved.
The bigger issue is giving the player a "Invulnerability spell" where X mana = X turns, and having the spell block both PHYSICAL and MAGICAL damage. Worse, you can (and I did as a kid) find this spell in the first chapter of the game.
If your party gets move priority, there is literally NEVER a reason to not immediately throw it on all three characters. You can even rest WHILE in combat and recover the stamina necessary to cast the spell. Let that sink in for a minute.
I used to deliberately skip getting that scroll after I beat it the first time because it made the game trivially easy.
Also all long-range physical damage (such as with crossbows) was basically pointless. They should have made it so if you successfully hit with a crossbow, the opponent becomes "temporarily hampered" and it halves their movement speed. As it is, it's trivially easy to engage in close combat with almost every enemy in game.
I'd love to see a modernized BAK with more D&D style combat mechanics (attacks of opportunity, flanking, etc.)
djur [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Feist didn't write the game, however.
vunderba [3 hidden]5 mins ago
That is true but I think he had a fair amount of input, and of course, all the rich lore and universe comes from him.
He actually later officially novelized the game. Kind of an interesting bit of trivia in the video game industry going from literature to game and then back to literature.
One of my favorite current authors is Peter Watts. His Blindsight is absolutely sublime and insightful, and I reread it frequently (and get more out of it each time).
Apparently he's written for Crysis and his next book is on backburner because Video Games actually pay rent :-).
shoo [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Watts is an excellent hard scifi author & a lot of his older writing -- including many short stories, the Rifters trilogy (Starfish/Maelstrom/Behemoth) and the excellent novel Blindsight are available to read here: https://www.rifters.com/real/shorts.htm
Peter Watts has been interviewed on the science fiction podcast "tales from the bridge" a few times -- IIRC on this episode with Peter Watts & Richard K Morgan (author of Altered Carbon), both authors discussed writing for video games. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-chat-with-peter-watt...
gwern [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It's interesting how exactly this seems to parallel the rise of Hollywood in the 1920s-1960s sucking writers out of the rest of the world to work on scripts. The same risk/reward profile, the same looking down on the mass medium, the same blackhole of work if the rest of the massive project doesn't work out...
TMWNN [3 hidden]5 mins ago
>MILLIONS ARE TO BE GRABBED OUT HERE AND YOUR ONLY COMPETITION IS IDOTS
—Email sent from video game writer to fellow author, c. 2025
dimitrisscript [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Mythic Quest vibes
chc4 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
One of my personal favorite examples is Seth Dickinson, who wrote some of the lore for Destiny, including the Book of Sorrow and Marasenna in-game lore books, which are IMO some of the best parts of the universe.
He then went on to write The Traitor Baru Cormorant, which I enjoyed a lot, and more recently Exordia - which is amusingly similar in themes and specific plot elements to the Book of Sorrow and really feels like Seth went "wait I wasn't done with that yet".
kev009 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Marc Laidlaw had a number of novels published before and after going to work for Valve and doing the Half Life thing.
"The Third Force" novel and the associated game "Gadget" are probably not well known - but if you liked Myst you might like them. It's a bit more of a visual story than a puzzle game - a bizarre psychological/psychedelic story with stunning for the time graphics (1993 or 1997 depending on the version).
exabrial [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I very much enjoy single player rather than multi.
The plot twist at the end of Crysis, when you don’t realize there was an intelligent purpose to a game mechanic… was an absolutely unforgettable moment. I don’t want to put any spoilers… something you took into the entire game suddenly becomes extraordinarily important at the end.
Only a great novelist could’ve put that together.
makeitdouble [3 hidden]5 mins ago
> Sooner or later, almost everyone I talk to brings up the radically different cultural status of games and books
This is why we can't have good things. Too many people are stuck behind the status debate, and in particular caring about status also means protecting norms that might not be beneficial to one's art.
Basically, caring about being high brow is IMHO in opposition to being creative and innovative. It can be in small or big ways, but that happens at some level I guess.
The more interesting debate to me is where the money is: it's a lot easier to work in a field that can sustain creators, and if the money is in games, game creators will outlast the other field creators.
sandspar [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It's The Guardian, a British newspaper for people who consider themselves upwardly mobile. Status anxiety is kind of their thing.
Doesn’t everyone just hit escape as soon as a cut scene starts?
dentemple [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Sure, if all you're doing is buying the latest Call of Duty iteration/clone.
But imagine spending $30 on a story-driven video game and just skipping the story.
That's almost as bad as buying a book and never reading it.
(Which, to be fair, is a sin that I do, sometimes, commit).
nkrisc [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Maybe I just enjoy the gameplay. The fact the story was also good is incidental to me (not that I followed the story).
Swizec [3 hidden]5 mins ago
> That's almost as bad as buying a book and never reading it.
> (Which, to be fair, is a sin that I do, sometimes, commit).
Buying books and reading books are separate hobbies. Everyone knows this.
deadbabe [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It is worth buying books even if you don’t read them. Having a collection of books waiting to be read is satisfying.
bluefirebrand [3 hidden]5 mins ago
> But imagine spending $30 on a story-driven video game and just skipping the story.
I cannot imagine buying a "story driven videogame" honestly. I love reading and I love stories, but to me the appeal of videogames is to play. Videogame stories mostly just get in the way of the actual appealing fun part for me
NikolaNovak [3 hidden]5 mins ago
And why not - but surely you get that others may have a different perspective and preference right? :)
card_zero [3 hidden]5 mins ago
By discussing why we like things, we may influence others to try those things. I enjoy avoiding story-driven games because they're controling and lack replay value, and I'm recommending this as something you may like to try too.
Or does recommending a negative not really work?
BobaFloutist [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Yeah it doesn't really work.
yareally [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Not a fan of the first 3 Mass Effect games? They would feel pretty shallow without the storyline that made you care about the characters
NikolaNovak [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Depends on game and person, as does everything :). I buy games hugely for stories and characters. But also, cutscenes are hardly the only or for many games even the major place writers can contribute.
Look at Disco Elysium with more than a million words written, but also anything from Cyberpunk 2077 to Colony Ship to Days of the Tentacle and Monkey Island and Space Quest, plus Mass Effect and KOTOR, Baldur's Gate and Plascape Torment... Great writing makes for great games :)
makeitdouble [3 hidden]5 mins ago
There's a full genre of games that are 99% dialog and cut scenes. You better not skip those.
I have never before or since met a more self indulgent, greedy, stuck up set of snobs in all my time. People who are exposed to their work might think them interesting, funny people but they were quite serious and believe themselves at the pinnacle of writing.
I think the stage has long been set for professional novelists to show up and eat their lunch.
The deft writing in that game is my go-to example for how to avoid that dime-store novella quality "purple prose," that you see so much in D&D fiction, and it easily holds its own against strong contenders in the writing category (Disco Elysium, Baldur's Gate, etc.).
Fair warning if you decide to go play it: spellcasting in the game is almost stupidly OP (cough Skin of the Dragon cough). Still great fun, but the combat is by far the weakest aspect of the game.
I would correct that to say balance is the weakest part. The open-endedness of the game is one of its strong suits (which is surprising given how it’s written) but there are many opportunities for an enterprising player to break the game. You can make your party fabulously wealthy just by exploiting the merchants in the game and then use the money to deck out the party with overpowered equipment.
The bigger issue is giving the player a "Invulnerability spell" where X mana = X turns, and having the spell block both PHYSICAL and MAGICAL damage. Worse, you can (and I did as a kid) find this spell in the first chapter of the game.
If your party gets move priority, there is literally NEVER a reason to not immediately throw it on all three characters. You can even rest WHILE in combat and recover the stamina necessary to cast the spell. Let that sink in for a minute.
I used to deliberately skip getting that scroll after I beat it the first time because it made the game trivially easy.
Also all long-range physical damage (such as with crossbows) was basically pointless. They should have made it so if you successfully hit with a crossbow, the opponent becomes "temporarily hampered" and it halves their movement speed. As it is, it's trivially easy to engage in close combat with almost every enemy in game.
I'd love to see a modernized BAK with more D&D style combat mechanics (attacks of opportunity, flanking, etc.)
He actually later officially novelized the game. Kind of an interesting bit of trivia in the video game industry going from literature to game and then back to literature.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krondor:_The_Betrayal
Apparently he's written for Crysis and his next book is on backburner because Video Games actually pay rent :-).
Peter Watts has been interviewed on the science fiction podcast "tales from the bridge" a few times -- IIRC on this episode with Peter Watts & Richard K Morgan (author of Altered Carbon), both authors discussed writing for video games. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-chat-with-peter-watt...
—Email sent from video game writer to fellow author, c. 2025
He then went on to write The Traitor Baru Cormorant, which I enjoyed a lot, and more recently Exordia - which is amusingly similar in themes and specific plot elements to the Book of Sorrow and really feels like Seth went "wait I wasn't done with that yet".
"The Third Force" novel and the associated game "Gadget" are probably not well known - but if you liked Myst you might like them. It's a bit more of a visual story than a puzzle game - a bizarre psychological/psychedelic story with stunning for the time graphics (1993 or 1997 depending on the version).
The plot twist at the end of Crysis, when you don’t realize there was an intelligent purpose to a game mechanic… was an absolutely unforgettable moment. I don’t want to put any spoilers… something you took into the entire game suddenly becomes extraordinarily important at the end.
Only a great novelist could’ve put that together.
This is why we can't have good things. Too many people are stuck behind the status debate, and in particular caring about status also means protecting norms that might not be beneficial to one's art.
Basically, caring about being high brow is IMHO in opposition to being creative and innovative. It can be in small or big ways, but that happens at some level I guess.
The more interesting debate to me is where the money is: it's a lot easier to work in a field that can sustain creators, and if the money is in games, game creators will outlast the other field creators.
But imagine spending $30 on a story-driven video game and just skipping the story.
That's almost as bad as buying a book and never reading it.
(Which, to be fair, is a sin that I do, sometimes, commit).
> (Which, to be fair, is a sin that I do, sometimes, commit).
Buying books and reading books are separate hobbies. Everyone knows this.
I cannot imagine buying a "story driven videogame" honestly. I love reading and I love stories, but to me the appeal of videogames is to play. Videogame stories mostly just get in the way of the actual appealing fun part for me
Or does recommending a negative not really work?
Look at Disco Elysium with more than a million words written, but also anything from Cyberpunk 2077 to Colony Ship to Days of the Tentacle and Monkey Island and Space Quest, plus Mass Effect and KOTOR, Baldur's Gate and Plascape Torment... Great writing makes for great games :)